Not understanding whats wrong with my FTR

Hi all,

This is my first post on this forum but I have been a longtime lurker since a lot of solutions for my problems came from these forums. I am having some problems lately and I can't get it quite right as to where the problems are originating from. I hope maybe one of you can give me a clearer view based on past experiences. I hope I can keep the story short and not bore you out.

My FTR is 2019 S model. I bought it secondhand with only 1000 km's on it. It came with the regular hiccups every FTR has (cold stalling, surging stalling). You name it and my FTR had it.

So after 3/4 months of dealing with these hiccups, I bought a PV3 from Fuelmoto, installed the tune and all of these were gone. No problems anymore and I was a happy motorcyclist.

At the beginning of this year I got rear-ended. The lady was busy with her baby on the backseat and didn't see me coming to a stop for a red light. The bike got hit on the exhaust at 30 kph, which caused me to get knocked forward and it fell down onto the left side. The front frame was cracked and the exhaust was scuffed. It took 6 months to get it all fixed and get everything sorted out with my insurance. The bike stood still during these 6 months with a full tank of gas.

As part of the repairs, I installed a new exhaust, the S&S slip on. When driving home from the garage the motorcycle starts rough idling. It can't get its rpm to hold and stalls everytime I get to a stop. On top of that I am now getting the cylinder misfire error code. Not a fun sight but I don't think too big of it since the engine doesn't sound like its getting a strain. The weird part about this is that the stalling and cyclinder misfire went away by installing the stock tune.
I contacted the garage and the mechanic told me it had something to do with the new exhaust. The engine could be pinched and he suggested to contact the tuner to get it sorted out.

So that is what I did. Fuelmoto worked on a new tune with me. The cylinder misfire and the stalling disapeared.

A couple months later I get the recall letter on cooling part. I bring it in for the repairs and the mechanic says he also updated the ABS software. It seems it wasn't done and he thought it would be a good idea to do so. He does tell me on the phone to bring my PV3 because they still knew it was tuned. This is were my current problems started.

The tune from Fuelmoto makes the engine sound like it's being mangled and it could seize at any moment. As a response I loaded the stock tune into the engine and now it sounds fine'ish. The motorcycle stalls almost everytime when I come to stop. If I downshift before a turn the engine sometimes shuts off

So it has been week since this all happened and I have been experimenting to see what could be the cause of all this. I called the mechanic again to be certain he only installed the software for the ABS system and nothing else. He was already hesitating a bit, telling me my tune from Fuelmoto should overwrite everything and there shouldn't be an issue.

This is what I did in the last week:

1) I had voltage problems/errors. I replaced the OEM battery, because I have cranking problems in the cold, for an 'upgraded' version (https://www.yuasabatteries.com/battery/gyz16h/). I wasn't paying attention while ordering it and didn't notice the poles were reversed. I made a new ground cable that is a bit longer and replaced the old one. The diameter and insulation are the same so I don't see any problems coming from this replacement.
The battery is being tendered every Friday. I do this because I know the batteries are a sensitive thing on the FTR. Still I have issues with engine cranking in cold weather, with the old and brand new battery.

The only problem I'm getting right now is an error which states the brake light is being shorted to ground. I need to look into to this but did not have any time yet. I'm a little electrically inclined but I have yet to look up what could be causing this.

2) I replaced the S&S exhaust with the stock exhaust. The stalling started with the installment of this one. The engine has the same problems on both exhaust so this shouldn't be a cause.

3) Since the motorcycle stood still for 6 months I thought the fuel injectors could be a bit clogged. So I added half a bottle of Putoline fuel injector and valve cleaner with my next top up. The stalling while idling is still present. So I presume the injectors are not clogged and this shouldn't be a cause.

Do any of you see anything weird in this story that could a be cause for my problems? Or did you have any of these problems in the past and you could give me a little insight into how you solved them. I am currently at the end of my patience and if it keeps up I'm replacing the FTR. I commute daily on this motorycle and it is becoming a little bit dangerous.

Cheers for reading until the end.
 

Charliemurphay

Well-known member
Man. Thats a lot. Is the cat still installed, or do you have a link pipe as well? Did you actually hook up the battery withe the reversed polarity?

(Copy paste from other forum)
 
The cat is still installed. The battery was not hooked up with the reversed polarity so I didn't blew any fuses. I have checked the voltages on the battery and they are still fine. Its hooked up to a tender right now (optimate 4) and it's giving me the full charge light ... really strange. It could be the cold as it is 5 degreeshere right now.
 

Charliemurphay

Well-known member
Well, Id say like was mentioned in the other forum that you should hook the PV3 up, tuck it in your pocket or jacket and do some ride logging and asend those logs to Fuel Moto so they can see what is happening and adjust the tune accordingly.

As far as the cold starting issues still being present, I can say as someone who had the Fuelmoto tune (and was happy with it) and currently has the Lloydz tune, the Fuelmoto tune seemed at best to “mask” the cold start and idle issues whereas it seems to me that the Lloydz tune eliminates them entirely. So if you are willing to drop some $$$ for a Lloydz tune, thats an option. That being said I cant say ir will solve what is going on here.

But it might. Log a ride, send it off, try that first.
 
Alright, I'll try that one and see what they will say.
Cheers for responding. I'll keep this up to date to if anything changes.
 

edgelett

Well-known member
wow - firstly, I'm glad you're ok and weren't too hurt. secondly, I'm glad your bike is able to be repaired.

My understanding is that once a 2019 FTR has had it's ECU updated to the new AH2 software, it is impossible to tune it via PV3 whether from Lloydz or Fuel Moto. FM apparently claim they CAN still tune it but I have seen dozens of people explaining similar issues to yours after the software update.

Best advice I can give is put the exhaust/cat delete on that you want and get a Lloydz tune for that exact setup.
yes it's expensive, but it's the only way to tune an FTR with the new software.

best of luck
 
Thanks for the response, I’ll look into it. I’m a bit hesistant since I already invested 500 euros into the Fuelmoto tune.
I’ll wait ato see if they can get it going and if they can’t, I’ll probably end up knocking on my dealers door so they can fix the mess they made.
If they don’t I’ll probably end up selling the bike.
 

Breto

Well-known member
Before I went down the road of the low Mount TOCE and the Lloyds tune for it I had the naked rider cat delete and a tune from FM called REV B…I’d had two previous tunes from them each better than the last and without a doubt the REV B tune was the icing on the cake. All of the stalling and cold start problems disappeared and the bike ran great. I have no hesitation in recommending that tune. But, as Tash has said, if it’s been updated with that AH2 then the TOCE and the tune to suit will totally change your outlook on your bike. Believe me man I was so close to getting rid of mine but with help from people here and a great deal of patience that all changed. Stick with it man. It does get better. 👍😎
 
Before I went down the road of the low Mount TOCE and the Lloyds tune for it I had the naked rider cat delete and a tune from FM called REV B…I’d had two previous tunes from them each better than the last and without a doubt the REV B tune was the icing on the cake. All of the stalling and cold start problems disappeared and the bike ran great. I have no hesitation in recommending that tune. But, as Tash has said, if it’s been updated with that AH2 then the TOCE and the tune to suit will totally change your outlook on your bike. Believe me man I was so close to getting rid of mine but with help from people here and a great deal of patience that all changed. Stick with it man. It does get better. 👍😎
We’ll see what happens. The dealer is looking into what went wrong at the shop.
fuelmoto already gave me a response and they presume it is a hardware problem. They think it’s an air leak.
I gave them a log and I am waiting for the analysis.

I fixed the brake light grounding issue and the engine is still giving me the same problems.

Thanks for thinking with me
 
Last edited:

MacBayne

Active member
What's the battery voltage while cranking? What is it at idle? What is it at 3000 RPM? Is there a sudden drop coming off the fuel?

A lot of things you mention are a low voltage issue. So far, you say things are good, but those numbers would still tell a story.

Also, have you tested your battery leak while off? What's the current after 10 seconds with the key on? That would help rule out shorts, too.
 

nailbeater

Member
Hi all,

This is my first post on this forum but I have been a longtime lurker since a lot of solutions for my problems came from these forums. I am having some problems lately and I can't get it quite right as to where the problems are originating from. I hope maybe one of you can give me a clearer view based on past experiences. I hope I can keep the story short and not bore you out.

My FTR is 2019 S model. I bought it secondhand with only 1000 km's on it. It came with the regular hiccups every FTR has (cold stalling, surging stalling). You name it and my FTR had it.

So after 3/4 months of dealing with these hiccups, I bought a PV3 from Fuelmoto, installed the tune and all of these were gone. No problems anymore and I was a happy motorcyclist.

At the beginning of this year I got rear-ended. The lady was busy with her baby on the backseat and didn't see me coming to a stop for a red light. The bike got hit on the exhaust at 30 kph, which caused me to get knocked forward and it fell down onto the left side. The front frame was cracked and the exhaust was scuffed. It took 6 months to get it all fixed and get everything sorted out with my insurance. The bike stood still during these 6 months with a full tank of gas.

As part of the repairs, I installed a new exhaust, the S&S slip on. When driving home from the garage the motorcycle starts rough idling. It can't get its rpm to hold and stalls everytime I get to a stop. On top of that I am now getting the cylinder misfire error code. Not a fun sight but I don't think too big of it since the engine doesn't sound like its getting a strain. The weird part about this is that the stalling and cyclinder misfire went away by installing the stock tune.
I contacted the garage and the mechanic told me it had something to do with the new exhaust. The engine could be pinched and he suggested to contact the tuner to get it sorted out.

So that is what I did. Fuelmoto worked on a new tune with me. The cylinder misfire and the stalling disapeared.

A couple months later I get the recall letter on cooling part. I bring it in for the repairs and the mechanic says he also updated the ABS software. It seems it wasn't done and he thought it would be a good idea to do so. He does tell me on the phone to bring my PV3 because they still knew it was tuned. This is were my current problems started.

The tune from Fuelmoto makes the engine sound like it's being mangled and it could seize at any moment. As a response I loaded the stock tune into the engine and now it sounds fine'ish. The motorcycle stalls almost everytime when I come to stop. If I downshift before a turn the engine sometimes shuts off

So it has been week since this all happened and I have been experimenting to see what could be the cause of all this. I called the mechanic again to be certain he only installed the software for the ABS system and nothing else. He was already hesitating a bit, telling me my tune from Fuelmoto should overwrite everything and there shouldn't be an issue.

This is what I did in the last week:

1) I had voltage problems/errors. I replaced the OEM battery, because I have cranking problems in the cold, for an 'upgraded' version (https://www.yuasabatteries.com/battery/gyz16h/). I wasn't paying attention while ordering it and didn't notice the poles were reversed. I made a new ground cable that is a bit longer and replaced the old one. The diameter and insulation are the same so I don't see any problems coming from this replacement.
The battery is being tendered every Friday. I do this because I know the batteries are a sensitive thing on the FTR. Still I have issues with engine cranking in cold weather, with the old and brand new battery.

The only problem I'm getting right now is an error which states the brake light is being shorted to ground. I need to look into to this but did not have any time yet. I'm a little electrically inclined but I have yet to look up what could be causing this.

2) I replaced the S&S exhaust with the stock exhaust. The stalling started with the installment of this one. The engine has the same problems on both exhaust so this shouldn't be a cause.

3) Since the motorcycle stood still for 6 months I thought the fuel injectors could be a bit clogged. So I added half a bottle of Putoline fuel injector and valve cleaner with my next top up. The stalling while idling is still present. So I presume the injectors are not clogged and this shouldn't be a cause.

Do any of you see anything weird in this story that could a be cause for my problems? Or did you have any of these problems in the past and you could give me a little insight into how you solved them. I am currently at the end of my patience and if it keeps up I'm replacing the FTR. I commute daily on this motorycle and it is becoming a little bit dangerous.

Cheers for reading until the end.
Did you figure out the problem?
 
Hi,

So the tuner told me it would probably be a vacuum leak.
I brought the bike back to the dealer and made them figure it out. They ‘broke’ it so they can fix it also.

So the bike is still not fixed. I did fix the ground issue. I just tightened the battery cables and the ground cable on the side of the chassis. I figure it wasn’t as tight as it should be.

Replying to Macbayne. Sorry it took a bit longer. I kinda lost track of it with multiple things going around here.

The voltage is fine while cranking. I can give you the exact data but I have to look it up.

I don’t understand the ‘sudden’ drop. Could you explain this a bit more.

I did’t check the leak or the voltage after turning the key. I can test this but right now I’m going to sit back and wair for the garage.
i’ll update this when I get it back!
 
So an update for the people who are interested.
The dealer thought it would be an O2 sensor failure since this error showed while they were riding the bike.
They reconnected all ‘loose’ wires and switched the sensors around to see if the problem would still persist on cylinder #2 (the one below your seat)
The error dissapeared but the engine still has trouble (stalling) while idling.

After a lengthy discussion in which they seem to target me for the fault, they are going to perform a valve timing check and see if there is any vacuum leak present.
They also casually said that there would be nothing they could do anymore after this … I find this part baffling and it has me scratching my head.

While checking the O2 sensor they also checked the cylinder itself. Apparantly there was some sand present in the throttle valve. Strange but apparantly it is what is. The bike has been rear ended a year ago. After asking if this could be related they starting talking about other stuff.
They also checked the spark plug etc but they found nothing wrong.

I’m having some conflicting feelings regarding this. First they seem to target me as the cause of the problem since I switched the battery and the cable wasn’t properly connected. Strange because I doublechecked after the grounding error. It dissapeared after tightening everything.
Their explanation is that induction charges have been created because of the badly connected wires which in time could damage the sensors and the control box.
I find this strange since they checked all the electrical wiring (they measured them) and the sensors, thus eliminating the electrical problem and their own accusation.

I’m at a crossroad … on one hand the dealer is doing what he can and should be doing. I truly hope the test reveals a vacuum leak. I tried talking him into checking the cables physically because there are a couple of the vacuum cables running near the T-section that got replaced. I casually tried asking him if his mechanic might slipped onto something or might have pulled something out of place. I didn’t really get a response and thats when they started talking about the valve test.

On the other hand I can feel the storm coming. They were already talking in a certain tone if I would be willing to ride the bike and see if the the stalling wouldn’t be to bothersom. I get it that this is sapping away time, money and a mechanic but still … the bike starting behaving like this after replacing the T-section.

Sorry for the longer post. I’ll update again when the garage has an update which will probably will be after New Year.

Happy holidays everyone!
 

edgelett

Well-known member
a battery change would not cause the stalling issues you are having. I still believe the tune is the reason behind the stalling.

but yes it sounds like they're deliberately trying to avoid any warranty work.
 
It’s a bit conflicting. On one hand I have Maverick from Fuelmoto telling me it’s a physical problem (vacuum leak).
On the other hand I have a mechanic saying they are not finding anything and it presumably has something to do with the tune.
My main thing here is that with the factory exhaust and tune installed, the bike still occasionally stalls when warm (70 degrees C) while idling
It never had or showed these problems even before I had it tuned.

I’ll be sending a mail today to Polaris and see what their action is going to be.
 
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