Not understanding whats wrong with my FTR

sometimes the process gets interrupted or doesn't write properly.
or it might be an issue with the tuning licence - you said it was flashed by a local tuner but did they get a licence for your VIN?

what type of tune was it? if it was one from Dynojet I know their tunes aren't good.
Hmm ok I didn’t know this was a thing. It was properly installed according to the PV3. I might install again and see what happens.
It could be that it didn’t stick.

All the tunes are from Fuelmoto. They worked before the recall situation so I doubt they are being bad.

I might have explained this in a bad manner but the garage pulled an ECU from a showroom 2019 model. This ECU was tuned by a local tuner. The motorcycle still had a rough idle with the ‘borrowed’ ECU.

After testing the ECU, they installed my own ECU back again which contains the stock tune.

I’ll tinker around with the tunes and see if anything changes.
Thanks for the input guys!
 

edgelett

Well-known member
I'm still curious what this other tune was on the different ecu. cause if it was idling at 1250rpm then it sounds like it wasn't tuned at all.
 
I'm still curious what this other tune was on the different ecu. cause if it was idling at 1250rpm then it sounds like it wasn't tuned at all.
I don’t know if the idle was at 1250 on the other ECU. They just told me that the idling was still rough when the engine was hot and it would occasionally stall. These would be the same symptoms I am having with my ECU and the stock/fuelmoto tune.

The fuelmoto tune that is installed right now has a 1250 idle and is bouncing constantly. I havent done the reinstall yet. Will probably be doing this tomorrow
 

edgelett

Well-known member
I don’t know if the idle was at 1250 on the other ECU. They just told me that the idling was still rough when the engine was hot and it would occasionally stall. These would be the same symptoms I am having with my ECU and the stock/fuelmoto tune.

The fuelmoto tune that is installed right now has a 1250 idle and is bouncing constantly. I havent done the reinstall yet. Will probably be doing this tomorrow
ok - then I misunderstood this post:

It does still have a rough idling. Just bouncing on the 1250 rpm range. It sometimes dips below and then stalls. This happens both cold and hot.
I tried the throttle body calibration again but it does not help with the bouncing.
This happens both tuned and stock.

I read that as you are having the exact same RPM speed and issues with stalling on 2 ECUs, both tuned and untuned.
1250 rpm is the stock 2019 idle speed.
It's important to find out whether the new ECU they tried idled at that speed with it both stock and tuned, and what this 'other tune' is that they tried from a 'local guy' - did he put it on a dyno or download something? if he downloaded it, what was it?

and if your FM tune idles at 1250, that doesn't sound right to me. I don't know much about their tunes but I'm sure they idle faster than that.
if it's still doing it after you try re-installing the tune, contact them as well.
 
ok - then I misunderstood this post:



I read that as you are having the exact same RPM speed and issues with stalling on 2 ECUs, both tuned and untuned.
1250 rpm is the stock 2019 idle speed.
It's important to find out whether the new ECU they tried idled at that speed with it both stock and tuned, and what this 'other tune' is that they tried from a 'local guy' - did he put it on a dyno or download something? if he downloaded it, what was it?

and if your FM tune idles at 1250, that doesn't sound right to me. I don't know much about their tunes but I'm sure they idle faster than that.
if it's still doing it after you try re-installing the tune, contact them as well.

So their ECU is a tuned by a local tuner. They put the bike on a dyno and figured it out. I'm guessing they made a bench tune.
That ECU also showed a rough idle and occasional stalling. After this swap they checked all the vacuum and intake lines. I don't know at which rpm their ECU/tune idles. They just told me they had the same problems when my ECU was installed. This was done to confirm there was nothing wrong with my ECU.

The FM tune starts out at 1400 rpm when cold and then drops down to 1250. You can hear/see it having the same stutter/bounce in the 1400 range as in the 1250 range. I have not yet reinstalled the tune but I did make log which catches the odd bouncing. I can send it if you're interested. The forum doesn't allow me to upload the file.
 

edgelett

Well-known member
yeah I'm not a tuner or a mechanic so uploading the file won't mean much to me.
I know rhe Lloydz tune idles at 1800 when cold then drops to 1250 when warm, as does the Indian ECU update for the 2019 FTR.
I thought the FM tune idled higher than 1400 to be honest.
 
yeah I'm not a tuner or a mechanic so uploading the file won't mean much to me.
I know rhe Lloydz tune idles at 1800 when cold then drops to 1250 when warm, as does the Indian ECU update for the 2019 FTR.
I thought the FM tune idled higher than 1400 to be honest.
Ok. I checked the air filter and it looks like this. It also has a fuel odor.
Time to replace this? I have no previous experience with an air filter and the dirtiness.

The tune runs a little bit better without a filter. This seems quite logical to me. It did pop an cylinder misfire.

I didn’t have time to check with the stock tune. I might do that later this week.
 

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Do you if the fuel injectors have been checked?
They haven’t been checked. I’m presumed if those were bad, the rpm should be bad across all ranges (while accelerating/decelerating).
It could still be worth checking out.

Its currently only stalls when idling and pulling the clutch ( coming to a stop). Rpms dip below 1250 and the engine can’t keep it running.
 

Breto

Well-known member
They haven’t been checked. I’m presumed if those were bad, the rpm should be bad across all ranges (while accelerating/decelerating).
It could still be worth checking out.

Its currently only stalls when idling and pulling the clutch ( coming to a stop). Rpms dip below 1250 and the engine can’t keep it running.
What FM tune have you been running? Do you have the Rev B tune? And the stalling at the lights thing has the fuse replacement been done on your bike? Just asking because I ran three different FM tunes prior to getting my TOCE and had zero problems. One thing I was told regarding uploading the tune via PV3 was that after you load it turn the key off and let it sit for 15 to 20 than start it again with no input what so ever. No throttle no anything and let it run until the fan cuts in. Turn it off. Let it sit for another 10 to 15 and after that it should be right.
 
What FM tune have you been running? Do you have the Rev B tune? And the stalling at the lights thing has the fuse replacement been done on your bike? Just asking because I ran three different FM tunes prior to getting my TOCE and had zero problems. One thing I was told regarding uploading the tune via PV3 was that after you load it turn the key off and let it sit for 15 to 20 than start it again with no input what so ever. No throttle no anything and let it run until the fan cuts in. Turn it off. Let it sit for another 10 to 15 and after that it should be right.
I have been running the tune they use to start the 'refining' process, FTR_S1-B.920X_R201002_RC1.

I did not know about letting the bike sit. I might do that and see if it helps.

Edit: The fuse replacement was done. I have those with the red dots on them now.
 
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my FM tune was fine and all but it had to go in the long run, story short. Nothing wrong with their great tune it just didn't get along with my 2019 FTR1200 S well either. It definitely was cold stall/from a stop/first gear and CEL problems that made me burn another $500 on the v6 from lloyds for what its worth. The CEL and 1st gear stalls were rare as hell but that first gear stall sounded so oddly familiar to a cold start stall every time. I went with the TOCE while I was at it, for the value ($1,000 in tunes to date so I had to gain more than just another tune) and because my other 3 bikes aren't loud.

Luckily I can sell my akro to cover the TOCE because the first gear/from a stop stalls didn't QUITE get me to drop the FTR but I came close once pulling out of a gravel parking lot. That was the last straw, as I would have lost even more to the FM tune issues my FTR had if I dropped my bike on those ridiculously expensive silencers.

Before someone asks, yes my FTR had to be started 5-10 times (99 out of 100 cold starts this was true) and yes I warmed it above 176 before departing every time. My FTR just absolutely hated the FM tune dunno why never saw improvement and was done getting bucked off the saddle so to speak. Best guess, pv3 issue not a FM tune issue. FM does everything they can for the motor and I'm guessing its just a dumb glitch somewhere in the pv3. MY ftr was definitely one of the worst cold stall offenders, period. Ironically, the factory OG 2019 tune rarely cold stalled.

Good luck, glad you're healthy.
 
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edgelett

Well-known member
thats definitely an issue with the tune, not with the PV3. I had a Lloydz Pv3 tune and never had any cold stalls from the day I loaded it on to the FTR, and prior to that I would get 5-6 cold stalls before I even got on the bike.
You're not the first person that had issues with an FM tune.
the Lloydz tune seems to work a lot better.
 
thats definitely an issue with the tune, not with the PV3. I had a Lloydz Pv3 tune and never had any cold stalls from the day I loaded it on to the FTR, and prior to that I would get 5-6 cold stalls before I even got on the bike.
You're not the first person that had issues with an FM tune.
the Lloydz tune seems to work a lot better.
Yep, that's possible I just try to stay positive about peoples hard work and consider all angles. There is a known bug in pv3 for what its worth, all opinions and hypotheticals hold merit. Every motor is also different. If I told you what my 2019 topped out at on GPS with my old setup on a FM tune, cat delete, akro setup, and 43t at factory PSI 3,000 mile P trail 2's, freshly lubed barely broken in gold nitride IDI chain on a barely broken in new sprocket, with 8,000 miles on the clock, 3k on the OEM oil, at 600ft elevation on a 70 degree day with a street temp and wind and humidity and tarmac composition of etc etc etc... you'd consider me mistaken. Things happen its just the way it is and they're all for a reason, hard to say what reason that is.

All I know for an actual fact is every motor is different, despite our "best" attempts at building identical ones. Same goes for most things, shit happens, and I totally agree with your opinion too.

If FM is working with OP there's no reason to encourage them to burn $500 just yet. Hopefully everyone grows and benefits from this experience together imo. Its quite a lot of opinions on tunes and oil, who knows am I right? I just chimed in for the lols cuz my bike and symptoms were somewhat comparable to what I was reading here.
 
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ferraiolo1

2021-2024 IMR Ambassador
Staff member
Sadly it’s been a trend for four years. Fm and Ryan / lloydz came out with a tune at the same time. I know countless people who paid for fm because it was cheaper. Then had to buy lloydz. My local dealer included.
 
Hi guys, thanks again for the input! Its been a couple weeks because I have been renovating my new house.

I did think about jumping on the Lloydz train but I gave that up after hearing, from the other garage, that an ECU swap (with a tune) didn’t fix the stalling issues.

You mention a bug in the pv3. What exactly is this bug?

I did indeed asked FM if they could see anything in my logs. Turns out I am using about 14% more fuel with their starting tune. If I look at the short fuel trims, I can understand where this is coming from. They are almost constantly in the +20% range which means my engine is running lean. The problem is that I don’t know where to look anymore. FM gave me a new tune based on these inputs.

The intake path has been completely checked except the fuel pump. The exhaust pipes haven’t been checked, even after my accident. I have been looking into some companies that can smoke an engine which could reveal any leaks.

The stock tune has not given me a stall in the last 3 weeks except an occasional cold stall. It does however have an occasional rpm dip when coming to a stop. I have learned to live with that. I’ll probably check out the new FM tune. If that doesn’t work out, I still will end up selling it
 
If stock tune means no more diagnostics needed then go with Lloyd’s v6 maybe?

I assume the ignition coil connectors were cleaned up and checked. The wreck didn’t damage front ignition coil connection? If they bad the FTR normally ain’t even gonna power on the display screen though…

I doubt that’s even an issue but I dunno how thrashed was bike anyway?
 

edgelett

Well-known member
.

I did think about jumping on the Lloydz train but I gave that up after hearing, from the other garage, that an ECU swap (with a tune) didn’t fix the stalling issues.
an ECU swap with a tune that you know nothing about and wasn't supplied by either FM or Lloydz from memory.
 
an ECU swap with a tune that you know nothing about and wasn't supplied by either FM or Lloydz from memory.
True ... but the same problem (stalling) persisted even with another ECU. I can say that the stalling happens with a stock tune, FM tune, some random tune by a tuner and on two different ECU's.
Which leads me to think that there is nothing wrong with the tunes/ECU.

The bike wasn't trashed at all. The car hit me at 30 kph on the exhaust en it fell over. So it took a small blow. I have been thinking that it could be that the exhaust might have a small opening causing air to get sucked in. I might check that rabbit hole today. The only thing I'm not certain about is how I am going to check for the leaks.

I also had a small crack in my front frame which they had to replace.

The coils are fine. They were checked and the sparks plugs have been replaced twice already.

I have installed the new FM tune. Tune runs fine when the bike is riding, hell its even running damn fine. No more stuttering when holding a certain rpm.
When idling it occasionally gets a stutter and then stalls. I'm also having regular cylinder #1 (front) misfire codes.
 
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