Hey, just bought a 2019 FTR. I knew about the cold start issues (rough idling, stalling till warm), but mine will literally crank and crank without starting (sometimes long enough to drain the battery). Once warm it works fine. Basically, excessive engine cranking to start the bike. What gives?
Different than the normal cold start issues
- Thread starter modrummer
- Start date
Charliemurphay
Well-known member
Do you know any of the history of it? Is it tuned or stock? Any other mods? Number of miles? Is it the original battery? Could be a number of things at this point.
Stock as far as I know. 4000 miles, battery is a Duracell AGM (seems to be in good shape as it can crank for a good 30 seconds-minute).
From what I understand, with the NORMAL FTR cold start issues, the bike starts but then dies until warm. With mine, bike wont even start till its cranked and cranked for a long time, but once running it acts normal
Charliemurphay
Well-known member
Yes normal FTR starting issues are to cough and sputter to life when cold (the colder the more sputtering) and then die once or twice til it’s reached a sufficient running temp. I’ve yet to hear of one I can think of that just cranks excessively without catching.
They came with Yuasa batteries so yours has been replaced it would seem. Not unusual but good to know.
Does it do the same thing every start or is it different when it’s hot? Say stopping for fuel for 5-10 min after a ride does it do it again? Does it have the cat still installed? What is the idle rpm when it’s cold?
Is it a base model or does it have the ride command screen? If it has the screen are there any trouble codes under the diagnostics page?
They came with Yuasa batteries so yours has been replaced it would seem. Not unusual but good to know.
Does it do the same thing every start or is it different when it’s hot? Say stopping for fuel for 5-10 min after a ride does it do it again? Does it have the cat still installed? What is the idle rpm when it’s cold?
Is it a base model or does it have the ride command screen? If it has the screen are there any trouble codes under the diagnostics page?
When the bike is warm, it starts up like a normal bike. And it does seem to be temperature dependant, started way sooner in 50 degree weather than 35 degree weather (but still had to crank quite a bit to start at 50 degrees).
Still has the cat. In fact, only mod I can see is an aftermarket straight-thru muffler. Not sure on the idle RPM, but it seems to operate like any other bike i've owned once running (idling a bit higher when cold and then settling down to its normal idle speed).
The bike runs and rides fantastically once its started, so doesn't seem to be an issue outside of startup.
Still has the cat. In fact, only mod I can see is an aftermarket straight-thru muffler. Not sure on the idle RPM, but it seems to operate like any other bike i've owned once running (idling a bit higher when cold and then settling down to its normal idle speed).
The bike runs and rides fantastically once its started, so doesn't seem to be an issue outside of startup.
Charliemurphay
Well-known member
The cold idle rpm is a quick way to tell if it’s tuned or not. Stock cold idle rpm is 1250ish, whereas the two reputable tunes bring it up to around 1400.
If it still has the cat, whatever is after it doesn’t matter as far as running condition goes. Generally speaking getting rid of the cat makes these bikes run worse unless you have a tune and the only exhaust that makes more power combined with the tune is the Toce low mount with a Lloydz bench flash.
If it has the stock tune, I’d almost chalk it up to normal extra lean factory cold start. Seemingly people with the 2019’s all had different experiences with the factory tune. Some had the basic cold start issues of dying once or twice while cold, for some it was borderline unrideable with jerky throttle and poor running issues. And some had no issues at all. These bikes seemingly had different personalities in the 2019 year and it could be normal for yours to just be a cranky starter when cold. The fix there would be to get it tuned. And if you’re riding in 35°F temps (get it!) it’s not gonna be happy either way, but especially on the factory tune.
If it still has the cat, whatever is after it doesn’t matter as far as running condition goes. Generally speaking getting rid of the cat makes these bikes run worse unless you have a tune and the only exhaust that makes more power combined with the tune is the Toce low mount with a Lloydz bench flash.
If it has the stock tune, I’d almost chalk it up to normal extra lean factory cold start. Seemingly people with the 2019’s all had different experiences with the factory tune. Some had the basic cold start issues of dying once or twice while cold, for some it was borderline unrideable with jerky throttle and poor running issues. And some had no issues at all. These bikes seemingly had different personalities in the 2019 year and it could be normal for yours to just be a cranky starter when cold. The fix there would be to get it tuned. And if you’re riding in 35°F temps (get it!) it’s not gonna be happy either way, but especially on the factory tune.
Thanks for your help!
As far as getting it tuned, is this my best bet for mail order? https://www.fuelmotousa.com/i-23897....html#!model=FTR 1200||make=INDIAN||year=2019
I'm also going to throw a multimeter on my battery to double check my voltages and make sure there isn't a hidden gremlin there.
Charliemurphay
Well-known member
I have had both the Fuel Moto tune and the Lloydz bench tune. The Fuel Moto tune is definitely better than the factory tune but I do think the Lloydz bench tune is the best tune you can get for the FTR regardless of any other mods. Buttery smooth cold start and idle, takes the jerkiness out of the throttle and all but eliminates the decel blip at 2500rpm when slowing which can be rough and jarring especially mid corner.
You need to remove your ECU (easy, takes 5 minutes to do) and mail it to them, or if you have a dealer near you that is one of their remote tuning centers you can bring it into them and they’ll do it there.
Here is the link:
You need to remove your ECU (easy, takes 5 minutes to do) and mail it to them, or if you have a dealer near you that is one of their remote tuning centers you can bring it into them and they’ll do it there.
Here is the link:
v6 ftr flash
Sold out BENEFITS A customized map for your intake and exhaust combination Improved peak power Enhanced rev and speed limits Improved throttle response Reduced popping Elimination of non-commanded throttle "blips" Reduced exhaust gas temperatures Smoother operation Enhanced Lean Angle Sensitive...
www.lloydzgarage.com
Charliemurphay
Well-known member
They changed a few hardware components on the newer motors from the ‘19’s that helped the cold start issues in addition to making them slightly more tame. I believe they have different throttle bodies and some other bits. The factory tune I believe is the same as the updated tune they released to help the ‘19’s issues (the “AH2” update). @ferraiolo1 knows more about the hardware changes than I.
edgelett
Well-known member
yes they did change it from the 2019 model, and as Charlie said above they did change some hardware too.
Ok wanted to post an update as I STILL have the same issues. Cranks but wont start, and eventually if you crank it enough it starts (see video above). I still haven't gotten the bike tuned, but I presume this is different than the normal cold-blooded tuning issues these bikes have?
Worth noting that this is with a brand new lithium battery (had the same issues with the old AGM battery, so definitely not a battery issue) and that the bike runs perfectly when warm.
Yep. A tune should fix that on the older bikes
Really? Ok that gets me excited. One more question, i'm going to go with Lloydz tune, should I have my dealer do the factory updates to the ECU before having the LLoydz tune installed? I assume a dealer update would wipe Lloydz tune from the ECU. Or does it not matter?
It depends on your dealer and the tech. Some can wipe it. I would get the recall done first. Unless your dealer is a tuning center.
After tune
After tune
Guess we will find out soon! I was under the impression that the "Cold Start Issues" were typically that the bike would start and then die. My bike doesn't even start most of the time as you can see in the video. Either way, needs a tune so I'll go for it!
Dealer update is for the ecu to the ah2 software.
Ride command update you can do yourself. That just makes the screen a little less glitchy
Ride command update you can do yourself. That just makes the screen a little less glitchy
So if my bike already cold idles at ~1500 RPM, i probably already have the AH2 update right?